Since she’s using the term ‘dramatic irony’ Echo seems to be saying that we know something that Mustard doesn’t, and it lets us know that Mustard is going to lose.
Echo seems convinced she’s the big bad. Assuming the audience ‘knows’ Echo is the big bad, we would conclude that Echo doesn’t get beaten here cause it’s too soon in the story. I’m not so sure Echo is the villain, but as long as she believes that it’s a reasonable conclusion for her to draw.
But here’s a more convincing angle: Would we be seeing this answering machine if Mustard will ever get the chance to listen to the messages that are being left for her?
Very good point. Hot damn. They’re really killing mustard. I don’t think anyone died outside of bsckstories bisides platt senior and maybe pj if that coma is gonna end up permanent. So for mustard to die would be kinda crazy. If that’s the case then yeah this is the point where shit get’s serious.
Echo has 4th wall knowledge, she understands tropes and knows what happens in the comic even if she isn’t present for it(For instance, she commented on Matthews suppressing mobile phones).
Echo knows of the scene where Soto tried to call mustard, and she knows that the dramatic irony of that scene with Soto calling mustard doesn’t work if Mustard calls her back. Since Echo understands this, she knows her sister will end this in a jail cell if she’s lucky and in a morgue if she’s not.
Wait, it’s also wrong. Morgan not being around to pick up the phone led to McBell taking her clown makeup off. That plot point’s *already* had a payoff, and it’s entirely dramatically appropriate for Mustard to win here at the cost of McBell quitting or getting arrested; recovering one little sister at the cost of another.
I mean, it also works if she’s just unable to stop the third-act escalation because she was actively trying to shortcircuit the plot by bringing in Maggie. A weirdly meta twist on the self-fulfilling prophecy, but much more satisfying because it’s based in good decisions on the Watsonian level.
I don’t get it but i respect the artistic vision. Unless they mean maggie kills mustard in that case i still respect the vision but now i also understand it.
The only thing I can think of after tonight McBell will quit being a clown. The clowns have basically become everything she hates. Bout risking his life to help obviously corrupt Burke. Chief Dougherty’s daughter being justifiably terrified of clowns which is the exact opposite of what the Clown Corps even exists for. Her backstabbing “friends reappearing to confuse her more. And of course because Mustard was to busy fighting her sister to be available to counsel McBell which was kind her job as a mentor I can totally see McBell coming to the decision of being done with clowning. Every institution has failed her including the Clown Corps.
Damn that’d be nutty. If mcbell quits i wonder if she’ll 1 later return 2 go solo or 3 straight up leave the story in a massive and probably hard to do subversion and or deconstruction. Not necessarily leading to a bad ending for our heroes but they simply wouldn’t have their trump card no more.
The 2ed prediction is what i hope for. 1st one is also good. But if done well the third one can be good too.
Bout can be doing the right thing and it can still be a sign of the Clown Corps corruption. They’re supposed to be firemen and Burke has used them as personal security so he can antagonize homicidal billionaires with impunity. I’m still wondering if there will be a real emergency tonight since a number of significant clowns have been distracted because of Burke.
That’s a really good question actually. It would add extra drama to the situation for sure. If McBell is thinking of quitting. That’s just a personal theory. She could do anything.
Yeah of course this page doesn’t have alt text. Damn.
I’m guessing… McBell quits the corps. But then Maggie kills Morgan, or maybe this is just the last we see of Morgan for a while, with the implication she’s dead. And now McBell is down a mentor, but up a tragic motivation.
And we still don’t have even a shred of insight into what’s driving Maggie.
A story about clowns ending in tragedy is passé by now. You can have drama and seriousness in a story with clowns, that’s cool and all, but are you going to try and enforce dramatic irony, to the point of tragedy here?
That’s dumb. You’re dumb. Stop being dumb. Sit down with your sister, catch up on things, talk this out.
Brain…too…small! Hurts! Must…think…harder!
Nah, still don’t get it, in spite of the effort (thx to Fellow et al.)
If Maggie really was so convinced of “The Plot” and her role as the villain, then why did she smile while plummeting to death?
I agree- Maggie doesn’t WANT to be the BBEG but feels compelled. She claims, an ironic end of a clown-story must be tragic. Lets agree to that for the sake of the argument. But would an epic fight between her an McBell constitute such an “ironic ending”? Wouldn’t it be au contraire the most clicheed one?
If we’re talking metanarrative, I think there’s a much more straightforward indicator that the story won’t end in tears: Tears of a clown is this chapter, and this ain’t the finale.
You give me hope! Why do you think this might not be the finale? My thinking was exactly the opposite: based on the chapter title and Morgan’s conclusion, I assumed (terrified) that this would indeed be the final chapter.
I mean there’s a lot that hasn’t been resolved. Who is the mole, will Oats ask a girl out? If so, who? What will the clowns we’ve seen in Squeeky’s office do? What’s the deal with the captain? What’s the deal with angel? Why is Echo alive? What’s the bigger target Echo set her eyes on? Why did mcbell want to be a clown? This chapter’s running real long, and I don’t see it crossing all those items off. If we believe Echo (chapter 6 page 128), there’s yet to be a final showdown, and mcbell isn’t gonna have one tonight.
I don’t really understand what Echo wants or why she wants it.
Like, I think she actually does kind of hate Morgan and is lying about it? But if not, it’s like she’s just being the bad guy because she’s in a story and it needs a bad guy. It’s all meta explanations but no actual in-universe ones.
they’re clowns and maggie in particular is a joker-style crime clown, “because the bit called for it” is not just a valid motivation but maybe the only possible one
I honestly can’t say I’ve read many stories before where the villain is this resigned into villainy purely on the basis of the anthropic principle, namely that this is a story and the story needs to have a villain.
This isn’t even a “the world has mistreated me and I will prove myself its foe” or “evil makes me feel good” scenario; We’re headed way past Shakepeare (Richard III and Shylock), past the genre saviness of things like Tarquin from OOtS and even past the Discworld’s Harry Dread into layers of Meta hereto only probed by the most postmodernist of essays and bad fanfiction, here.
I don’t get it.
Since she’s using the term ‘dramatic irony’ Echo seems to be saying that we know something that Mustard doesn’t, and it lets us know that Mustard is going to lose.
Echo seems convinced she’s the big bad. Assuming the audience ‘knows’ Echo is the big bad, we would conclude that Echo doesn’t get beaten here cause it’s too soon in the story. I’m not so sure Echo is the villain, but as long as she believes that it’s a reasonable conclusion for her to draw.
But here’s a more convincing angle: Would we be seeing this answering machine if Mustard will ever get the chance to listen to the messages that are being left for her?
Very good point. Hot damn. They’re really killing mustard. I don’t think anyone died outside of bsckstories bisides platt senior and maybe pj if that coma is gonna end up permanent. So for mustard to die would be kinda crazy. If that’s the case then yeah this is the point where shit get’s serious.
(wanted to expand my explanation a bit)
Echo has 4th wall knowledge, she understands tropes and knows what happens in the comic even if she isn’t present for it(For instance, she commented on Matthews suppressing mobile phones).
Echo knows of the scene where Soto tried to call mustard, and she knows that the dramatic irony of that scene with Soto calling mustard doesn’t work if Mustard calls her back. Since Echo understands this, she knows her sister will end this in a jail cell if she’s lucky and in a morgue if she’s not.
Or well, this is my running theory anyway.
What’s really throwing me here is that Mustard, who has no meta knowledge, seems to understand what Maggie is saying.
Wait, it’s also wrong. Morgan not being around to pick up the phone led to McBell taking her clown makeup off. That plot point’s *already* had a payoff, and it’s entirely dramatically appropriate for Mustard to win here at the cost of McBell quitting or getting arrested; recovering one little sister at the cost of another.
I mean, it also works if she’s just unable to stop the third-act escalation because she was actively trying to shortcircuit the plot by bringing in Maggie. A weirdly meta twist on the self-fulfilling prophecy, but much more satisfying because it’s based in good decisions on the Watsonian level.
I don’t get it but i respect the artistic vision. Unless they mean maggie kills mustard in that case i still respect the vision but now i also understand it.
The only thing I can think of after tonight McBell will quit being a clown. The clowns have basically become everything she hates. Bout risking his life to help obviously corrupt Burke. Chief Dougherty’s daughter being justifiably terrified of clowns which is the exact opposite of what the Clown Corps even exists for. Her backstabbing “friends reappearing to confuse her more. And of course because Mustard was to busy fighting her sister to be available to counsel McBell which was kind her job as a mentor I can totally see McBell coming to the decision of being done with clowning. Every institution has failed her including the Clown Corps.
Damn that’d be nutty. If mcbell quits i wonder if she’ll 1 later return 2 go solo or 3 straight up leave the story in a massive and probably hard to do subversion and or deconstruction. Not necessarily leading to a bad ending for our heroes but they simply wouldn’t have their trump card no more.
The 2ed prediction is what i hope for. 1st one is also good. But if done well the third one can be good too.
Bout is only defending Burke because it’s his job and he doesn’t want anyone to get killed, even if it is Burke we’re talking about.
Bout can be doing the right thing and it can still be a sign of the Clown Corps corruption. They’re supposed to be firemen and Burke has used them as personal security so he can antagonize homicidal billionaires with impunity. I’m still wondering if there will be a real emergency tonight since a number of significant clowns have been distracted because of Burke.
Can McBell just quit, though? She’s with the corps through Court order, not choice; so quitting might mean jail time
That’s a really good question actually. It would add extra drama to the situation for sure. If McBell is thinking of quitting. That’s just a personal theory. She could do anything.
Yeah of course this page doesn’t have alt text. Damn.
I’m guessing… McBell quits the corps. But then Maggie kills Morgan, or maybe this is just the last we see of Morgan for a while, with the implication she’s dead. And now McBell is down a mentor, but up a tragic motivation.
And we still don’t have even a shred of insight into what’s driving Maggie.
But Maggie, c’mon.
A story about clowns ending in tragedy is passé by now. You can have drama and seriousness in a story with clowns, that’s cool and all, but are you going to try and enforce dramatic irony, to the point of tragedy here?
That’s dumb. You’re dumb. Stop being dumb. Sit down with your sister, catch up on things, talk this out.
Let it end in tears – HAPPY tears, dummy.
No title text again! It’s almost as if this is supposed to be dramatic or something!
Brain…too…small! Hurts! Must…think…harder!
Nah, still don’t get it, in spite of the effort (thx to Fellow et al.)
If Maggie really was so convinced of “The Plot” and her role as the villain, then why did she smile while plummeting to death?
Maybe she doesn’t want to be the villain and is just stuck in the role? Would line up with the little aside where she freed the chameleon at the PSC.
Iunno though, I’m not confident about my interpretation of Echo and what she’s saying on this page.
I agree- Maggie doesn’t WANT to be the BBEG but feels compelled. She claims, an ironic end of a clown-story must be tragic. Lets agree to that for the sake of the argument. But would an epic fight between her an McBell constitute such an “ironic ending”? Wouldn’t it be au contraire the most clicheed one?
If we’re talking metanarrative, I think there’s a much more straightforward indicator that the story won’t end in tears: Tears of a clown is this chapter, and this ain’t the finale.
You give me hope! Why do you think this might not be the finale? My thinking was exactly the opposite: based on the chapter title and Morgan’s conclusion, I assumed (terrified) that this would indeed be the final chapter.
I mean there’s a lot that hasn’t been resolved. Who is the mole, will Oats ask a girl out? If so, who? What will the clowns we’ve seen in Squeeky’s office do? What’s the deal with the captain? What’s the deal with angel? Why is Echo alive? What’s the bigger target Echo set her eyes on? Why did mcbell want to be a clown? This chapter’s running real long, and I don’t see it crossing all those items off. If we believe Echo (chapter 6 page 128), there’s yet to be a final showdown, and mcbell isn’t gonna have one tonight.
You’re right! Thank you! I am not ready for the curtain call (and probably never will be, well…)
The tears of a clown when there’s no one around…
Oh, I get it. She’s going to rush home, but it’ll be too late–McBell has already made the answering machine cry.
Not sure I’m a fan of where the story has been going lately, but I’m this far in already.
But . . . but Maggie. If you’re expecting an ironic clown story to end in tears . . . wouldn’t it be more ironic if they were happy tears?
I don’t really understand what Echo wants or why she wants it.
Like, I think she actually does kind of hate Morgan and is lying about it? But if not, it’s like she’s just being the bad guy because she’s in a story and it needs a bad guy. It’s all meta explanations but no actual in-universe ones.
they’re clowns and maggie in particular is a joker-style crime clown, “because the bit called for it” is not just a valid motivation but maybe the only possible one
I honestly can’t say I’ve read many stories before where the villain is this resigned into villainy purely on the basis of the anthropic principle, namely that this is a story and the story needs to have a villain.
This isn’t even a “the world has mistreated me and I will prove myself its foe” or “evil makes me feel good” scenario; We’re headed way past Shakepeare (Richard III and Shylock), past the genre saviness of things like Tarquin from OOtS and even past the Discworld’s Harry Dread into layers of Meta hereto only probed by the most postmodernist of essays and bad fanfiction, here.
I really had to look up Harry Dread! Shame on me! I was tired…